Own dialog: The inner victim & victimizer

Q: So you [the victimizer] are not that different from the victim?

A: In that sense, we are not different. The victim thoughts are the victimizer thoughts. The thoughts that appear as the thoughts of the victim, are the thoughts creating a sense of victim.

The following is an inner dialog with the victim and victimizer parts of me.


Can I speak with the victim?


I would like to get to know you.

Thank you. Not many take an interest in me. I feel overlooked.

You are a victim of people not wanting to get to know you?

Yes. That too.

How does P. relate to you?

He is sometimes interested in me. But he really would like me to not be here. And he sometimes gets identified with me and speaks as if he was me.

What can he do differently?

He can be more here for me. Be with me. Notice me. Guide me. He can help me.

What is not so helpful?

When he gets caught up in me, it’s not so helpful. He becomes me, and that doesn’t help him or me. For me, it’s just what I already am familiar with. And for him, it’s blinding and creates suffering.

What is helpful?

When he is with me, with respect, kindness, patience, gentle curiosity. When he genuinely want to get to know me, listen to me.

What are you?

I am a part of his system. An energy. I am created by how he responds to certain situations, when he feels like a victim. I am created from certain thoughts held as true.

What is your function?

Good question. I am not exactly sure. I imagine I am here to help him. For him to avoid repeating certain situations, and go inward and examine situations to learn from them. My presence can also help him find his own strength, autonomy, and the opposite of what I represent.

What’s your relationship with the victimizer?

I am created by the victimizer. And the victimizer wouldn’t exist without me. We create each other.

Where is the victimizer?

It’s within P. A situation trigger a sense of victimhood in him, it brings activity to me. And what activates me is his inner victimizer. He is victimizing himself through how he responds to certain situations.

Does he recognize that?

To some extent, but not fully. There is more for him to notice and acknowledge there.

What role do you play in his life?

It varies a lot. He has had periods where I haven’t been very active, where he puts me aside because it doesn’t fit who he wants to be. And he has periods where I am more present, and come up more strongly now and then. He does sometimes dive into me when things feel difficult for him, especially when his health and energy levels are not so strong.

What happens when you are more present in his life?

He becomes a victim, he takes on my role. He perceives, thinks, feels, and lives as if he is a victim. It doesn’t feel good for him, and it can create problems for him. He overlooks better solutions.

What advice do you have for him?

Bring light into me. Bring your awareness into me. Get to know me. Examine what happens when you identify with me. Get in the habit of noticing me and being with me when I am more activated without identifying with me. Recognize me as a part of you.

Get to know the victimizer-victim dynamic in yourself. And use me to find and build the reverse of what I am. Fuel your strength, confidence, and autonomy.

You sound selfless?

Yes, I am here for him. That’s my purpose. I want what’s best for him.


Can I speak with the victimizer?


Who are you?

I am the victimizer. I am the part of P. he uses to victimize himself.

That doesn’t sound so good?

That’s how many people see it. I am an often overlooked part of most people. Most don’t want to acknowledge me. But I have an important function.

What is that function?

I help create the victimizer-victim experience. Without me, it wouldn’t be here.

Wouldn’t many see that as a good thing?

Yes. Although there is anther side. I have a function. I am here. I was created through evolution.

I am what anyone who takes him/her/itself to be fundamentally separate would experience now and then. I am part of the separation experience.

You are part of lila?

Yes, I am part of the dance of life, the divine, and the creativity of the mind. I am part of what happens when the mind and life takes itself to fundamentally be separate and a separate being.

How does P. relate to you?

He is curious about me and want to know more about me. He wants to get to know me.

At the same time, he feels shame about me. Right now, he had a flash where he asked himself if he really wanted to post this dialog or not.

Why does he want to get to know you?

He sees that his own victimizer-victim dynamic is not as conscious as he would like, and this sometimes creates problems and discomfort for him. Life has set up situations for him which has brought him to me.

How can he get to know you?

This is a good step.

Also, whenever he notices the victim activated in him, he can look for me. I am always here when the victim is activated. I am the one in him activating the victim. He can notice the energy of me, and also the thoughts and beliefs creating me.

The thoughts he takes as victim-thoughts are really victimizer thoughts. That’s how the victim-sense is created.

That seems important?

Yes, that’s something for him to notice and explore more. Whenever he has victim-type thoughts, he can notice that these are actually victimizer thoughts. It’s how the victim is activated, and it is how the mind is creating a victim experience for itself.

So you are not that different from the victim?

In that sense, we are not different. The victim thoughts are the victimizer thoughts. The thoughts that appear as the thoughts of the victim, are the thoughts creating a sense of victim.

What are some examples?

Poor me -> This is the thoughts of the victim. And they are also the thoughts of me, the inner victimizer, since they create a sense of victimhood. (When they are held as true, that is. If they are not held as true, they are just questions and don’t create this dynamic.)

My life is terrible -> Again, this looks like the thoughts of a victim. And they are, more honestly, the thoughts of the inner victimizer. They are the thoughts that, when believed, creates a sense of victimhood.

I don’t deserve this -> Yes, this too appears as the thought of a victim, while it’s as or more true that it’s the thoughts of the inner victimizer (when believed).


Thank you both – victim and victimizer <3

Thank you! Always happy for you to explore us and get to know us a little better.

Before we end this conversation – anything more you want P. to know?

Yes, we are here for him.

We are here to create and flesh out the separation consciousness experience.

And we are here at his service when he wants to get to know us better. Any time he wants to explore us, we are here for him.


This helped me see more clearly how the victim and victimizer thoughts often (always?) are the same.

I want to see if I can notice this whenever victim thoughts appear in the next while.

Even if it wasn’t an explicit part of this dialog, I also see that any thought held as true holds within it the seed of the victimizer-victim dynamic. Holding a thought as true creates a sense of separation and being a separate self, and a separate self can be a victim.

Through this dialog, I found a genuine appreciation and love for these parts of me. They are here innocently, to create an experience, and they are here for me to get to know them.

And, yes, I am going to make this public even if I had that fleeting thought of not doing it. I had a flash image of people judging me for having an inner victimizer and talking openly about it, and then see that this is universal, innocent, and can be helpful to more than me.

Until the lion tells the story, the hunter will always be the hero

Until the lion tells the story, the hunter will always be the hero.

– proverb from somewhere in Africa

This is an interesting proverb in several ways.

It reminds us to listen to the story of the ones who haven’t yet told their story. If that’s not possible, for whatever reason, we can at least acknowledge there are other – perhaps equally valid – stories to be told about any situation. And sometimes, we can do our best to imagine what those stories may be.

The proverb also reminds us of our anthropocentrism. We see the world through human eyes, and sometimes ignore the viewpoint of non-human species. We – explicitly or implicitly – assume and live as if the world was created for us, and chose to ignore the myriad of other beings who want the same as us. They want to live. They, in their own way, want to be respected. If they could speak, they would tell us to take their needs into consideration as well.

In a similar way, we tend to prioritize our own needs and wishes over the needs of future generations. We are unable to listen to the voices of future generations since they are not here yet. But we can give them a voice. We can include someone who speaks for them in the decisions we collectively make. We can imagine their needs and wishes. And we can probably imagine these needs and wishes pretty well since they are the universally human ones.

The lion also represents the lion in each of us. The primal power. In our western culture, we have ignored this voice as we have ignored the metaphorical voice and viewpoints of flesh and blood lions and animals in general.

Listening to the voice and viewpoint of lions and animals, future generations, and our inner lions and voices, all go hand in hand.

How would an imagined dialog with the lion go?



What’s your view on humans?

They are not someone we would normally care much about. But they keep taking our land, and they hunt us for no reason that we can understand. We hunt because we have to eat to survive. They don’t seem to hunt for food. What else than eating can justify killing us?

It seems they brag about killing us. We don’t understand. We hunt because we have to. It’s nothing to brag about.

And they have a way to kill us at a distance. We don’t have a chance. We need to get close to kill, and they won’t allow us to get close. If we got close, and they hadn’t their way of killing us, they wouldn’t stand a chance.

And what about a dialog with the inner lion?

How does P. relate to you?

He likes the rawness and power I have and makes use of it sometimes, but otherwise tends to ignore me. He is cautious about me and has learned, from culture and family, to be cautious and often ignore me.

How do you help him?

I help him feel stronger and more in charge of how he deals with situations. I help him feel more whole. I help him get things done. He feels more whole, embodied, and alive when he taps into me.

What advice do you have for him?

You don’t need to be so cautious with me. Tap into me and bring me into your daily life more often. I can be with you more constantly, and you’ll feel stronger, grounded, and alive, and it will help you be more real with yourself, others, and life.

Footnote: It seems that giving children and students the task of writing stories from the normally voiceless – animals, plants, future generations, ecosystems, Gaia and so on – would be very interesting. It helps us imagine the world from another perspective than our own, including as human beings. I am sure some teachers and schools do this, and I would certainly have loved it.

Dialog with a dragon

I thought I would do an imaged – and very real since it all reflects me– dialog with a dragon.



Hi, I would like to speak with you.


I understand if you don’t want to meet me or talk with you. I can assure you I am here only to talk with you and hear what you have to say. I have no weapons. There are nobody else here.

What do you want?

Hi – just to get to know you and learn how you see the world. What’s your name?

It’s unpronounceable in your language.

OK. Can you say something about your experience with humans.

I am not really interested. I and my family have nothing but an endless series of awful experiences.

You feel hurt? Misunderstood?

That’s right.

What have they done to you?

What have they not done to us? They have villified us. Made us into monsters. Tortured us. Killed us. Glorified killing us.

I am very sorry. I think humans – at least in Europe – have been very scared of you and didn’t know what to do, except try to get rid of you.

I know. It’s no excuse.

I wish to have a different relationship with you. I want to understand you better.

So you can kill me? Sounds like just another way to trick us. We know your ways.

I understand you are suspicious. You have every right to be.

You are exactly right.

What would it take for you to trust me?

I would need to get to know you and see you for a very long time.

OK. I am here.


What do you represent for humans?

On one level, monstrocity, violence, danger, death.

At another level, wisdom, fearlessness, primal power.

Yes, that sounds right. Do humans fear the second list?

Yes, at least traditionally on this continent.

Why? It sounds good to me.

It’s not good if you want to have people believe your religion, obey orders, and respect the hierarchy and the power of others.

Ah, so you mean someone decided to make you into a villain?

It’s part of it. We represent exactly that which can undo obedience and hierarchy.

We represent the characteristics in humans that make people question what they are told and the social order they have inhereted.

So for those in power, it makes sense to make us into something bad.

Some of us may have pillaged some villages and burnt some knights too, which can explain some of the hostility. But we mostly don’t do that. We are content taking a goat or two now and then.

OK. Thank you for letting me know some more. It makes sense what you say. And it seems humans have some reason to fear you?

Well, some. Although fear is very different from creating us into monsters and glorifying killing us.

Yes, agree. Perhaps a healthy respect is better.

Yes, we would like that.

As a dragon and what you represent – wisdom, power, fearlessness – how can you help humans today?

These are the qualities many humans need today to have a more fulfilling life and also to do what’s right for them and what they see as right for the world.

It will help them cut through fear and going along with outdated views and opinions.

And a more personal exploration….

How does P. relate to the dragon in him?

He is cautious although also fascinated and likes me and brings me out now and then. He feels much better when he brings me out, although he’s also a bit self-conscious when it happens.

How can you help P.?

I can help him with fearlessness, power, and fearlessly and powerfully acting on wisdom when neccesary. I help him be more fierce, real, and decisive.

How does he see that?

He likes it, although he is still finding his way. He wants to do it in a kind and wise way and being considerate of others, although it’s something he just has to jump into it. And being considerate of others isn’t always the most kind thing – to himself or others.

Seems you can have a good partnership?

Yes, as his inner dragon we can have a very good partnership. That’s what I want.

I can give him very needed primal power and fearlessness. He can give me freedom to be myself and live my life. That’s much better than being shunned, hunted, and killed.

Seems that you have gifts for him?

Yes. As his inner dragon, he needs me. He can’t really function without me. And he can certainly not have a good and real life without me.

I can help him live the life he wants to live.

How can he bring you more out?

I don’t really need to be brought out. I just need to be acknoledged and he needs to tap into me in his daily life, when it’s called for.

A big part of it is for him to be real instead of always being very considerate of others. Being truly considerate is to be real, not hiding himself and how he feels, what he wants, and how he sees things. Hiding this isn’t considerate, it’s manipulation.

When he avoids me, he becomes the dark image people have of us dragons. Manipulative. Cunning. Sneaky.

When we are free, we are not like that.

Thank you, dragon. I enjoyed getting to know you a little more.

Thank you. It wasn’t too bad. Now let’s see if you can put your words into action and stay respectful of me and what I represent, and if P. can bring me more into his daily life.

A dialog with Lila – the dance of existence

This playfulness in inherent in you as a human being, just as it’s inherent in all life and all existence. Without me, without this playfulness, nothing would exist and certinaly nothing would evolve. I am how the universe evolved into solar systems, planets, living planets, and you and everyone and everything you know.

– from this dialog

This is one of a series of – imagined and yet real – dialogs with aspects of who and what I am. In this case, Lila – the play or dance of existence.

Hi – it’s good to talk with you!

Likewise. It’s good to talk with someone who sees me and even appreciates me.

You mean most people or beings don’t?

Yes, people like me when I appear in the way they – as a human being with ideas and conditioning – want. And they don’t like me so much when I appear in the ways they don’t like. Also, they tend to recognize me as the dance or play of life only when they themselves are in a playful mood. They don’t recognize the play or dance so much when they are in other moods. Then, they often see me more as a challenge, inconvenience, or problem. Which is fine, but it’s good when I am recognized as dance or play.

What about P., the one writing this and asking these questions, does he recognize you?

Yes and no. He does when he does, when we notices all as happening within and as consciousness and what he is. When he steps back a bit and notices the bigger picture. And he doesn’t so much when he gets caught in something smaller, when his own stressful beliefs and emotion issues are triggered and he gets caugth in it.

It doesn’t matter to me since I am always Lila and who he is and what he experiences is me too. But it does matter to his life, and when the storm passes he does switch back to noticing me.

Most of the time, I am just a simple noticing away from him. Sometimes, I am more in the foreground. And sometimes, I go more in the background when he gets caught in things.

You already hintet at it, but can you say more about what P. and his experiences and the world as it appears to him are in relation to you?

I am all of it. It’s all Lila – it’s existence exploring and experiences itself in always new ways. It’s not really a relationship since it’s all me. It’s always me whether someone or something is noticing it or not. The noticing doesn’t matter to me, but it does matter to the one noticing when they are noticning.

How does it matter? What does it do for them to notice you?

In general it helps them appreciate the dance of life. It helps them open to finding appreciation and gratitude for life as it appears to them here and now. It helps them step back a bit from their ideas of how life should and needs to be, it gives them a bit of space to those ideas, and that gives them more freedom and room for appreciating life as it is.

It depends a bit on the noticing. The noticing can be more of an idea, and then it’s an invitation for them to notice it in their immedate experience. And it can be a more direct noticing.

How is this for P.?

He did experience me directly first, in his teens, before knowing my name or that anyone else had noticed or knew about me. So that gives him some ease in his relationship to me. He knows me intimately and not primarily from what others said or wrote, and that’s still how I am for him.

He does also notice me as an idea and sometimes he is more focused on the idea than me as I am. But he does also use this idea to shift into noticing me more directly.

Do you have any advice for him?

Yes, he sometimes uses me as a reason to sit back and not intervene in situations. He sometimes leans back into me and doesn’t take care of his life as much as he could.

For the sake of his life, he needs to be a little more engaged in his life and a little more engaged in being a good steward of his life and being more actively on his own side.

It’s not a huge shift, it’s more of a tweak. But it’s important to him to make this shift more often. He is ready to do it. And it will give him more of the life he wants and a life that can benefit him and others and life more fully.

How can people find you?

Hm, good question. I am always here. In a sense, I am all they know. They just don’t always notice or recognize me.

If they wish to find me, there are several ways and each one has to find the way that works for them.

They can find me through the Universe Story and Epic of Evolution, often first more as an idea but then in a more immediate way.

They can find me through noticing the creativity of their own mind and how it filters their experience of themselves and their world, and how this is a dance and always new.

They can find me through noticing that their experience of themselves and the world happens within and as what they are, and that this is a dance and play of consciousness.

Thank you. Is there anything else you would like to say?

Just that for you, as a human being, noticing me can make a big difference. It can help you appreciate the inherent playfulness of life, even when it’s not to your liking. It can help you open to more gratitude and appreciation for what’s here as it is. It can also help you find your own inherent playfulness.

Can you say more about this playfulness?

This playfulness in inherent in you as a human being, just as it’s inherent in all life and all existence. Without me, without this playfulness, nothing would exist and certinaly nothing would evolve. I am how the universe evolved into solar systems, planets, living planets, and you and everyone and everything you know.

Because of your culture and ideas of how you should be as adults, you sometimes lose connection with this playfulness, or you think it’s only there in some situations in your life. In reality, I am always here. I am all you know. And bringing me into your life more intentionally in more situations, and even all situations, can help you a lot.

It will immensely enrich your life. It will open you up to see new opportunities and possibilities. It will help you follow your sense of what’s right in the moment, even in what you call small and ordinary activities. It will help you do things in slightly new and different ways because it feels right and you are drawn to it.

It will help you notice the inherent playfulness of life in all the different ways life appears to you. It will help you notice the inherent playfulness in how you relate to life and in how life responds to you.

This is a small shift in noticing, and what you notice is just what’s already here. And this noticing can profoundly enrich and transform your life.

Thank you. I appreciate this conversation a lot. Thank you for being you. And thank you for being me!

And thank you for being me! Without you – and all beings and all of existence – there would be no me. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I am immesely grateful for you. For you as you are.

I have one more question. You do sound a lot like P.?

Yes, because he is the one doing this dialog and writing these words. I am filtered through him and his experiences and biases. And that too is part of what I am that, that too is part of lila. That’s part of the richness of existence. Any other being having this type of dialog with me will do it through their own filters and experiences and it will be unique and different. I love it!

Dialog with suffering

I play a vital role in his life. I can give him what he most wants. I can give him a more and more open heart and mind and a deep connection with himself, other beings, and the world.

I can help him deeply heal. I can help him deeply awaken. I can help him deeply embody whatever clarity, wisdom, and love is available to him.

A dialog with suffering.

Hello, am I speaking with suffering?

Yes, you are.

How do people treat you?

Most treat me as an outcast. As something to get rid of. They numb themselves from me. They distract themselves from me. They struggle with me. They try to get rid of me. They try to transcend me. They try to transform me. Some even try to define me out of existence.

How is that for you?

How would it be for you? I am not that different from you. It doesn’t feel good. I often feel unloved. Unappreciated. Misunderstood. Abandoned. Abused. Mistreated.

How does P. treat you? (P. is the person these voices are within.)

It’s mixed. He sometimes does all of the above. And sometimes he is much better with me and seeks to understand me and listen to me. I like that.

How can P. appreciate you more?

Thank you for asking. Not many ask that question.

He can listen to me. Hear what I have to say. Ask what I would like from him. And also feel the physical sensations of me. Allow them to be when they are here.

What would you like from him?

To take me seriously. Realize I am here to protect him. My purpose is to help him. He doesn’t have to run away. He doesn’t have to get rid of me or transcend or transform me. When he meets me, he may discover that I am not as scary as he sometimes assumes.

Let me be as I am. Listen to what I have to say. Feel my sensations. That’s really all I ask.

Do you suffer?

That’s a tricky question. No I don’t. I am suffering but I don’t suffer. But when P. ignores me and tries to make me go away, I do – in a sense – suffer. And that suffering gets his attention even more. That extra suffering his the sign for him to notice how he relates to me. That extra suffering comes from how he relates to me. It’s not inherent in who or how I am.

Do you need to go away?

No. I am here for him. I can help him in many ways. I have many gifts for him, if he just sees.

What gifts do you have for him?

He wrote about it in the previous article. He already knows the essence. He just needs to allow it to sink in and live more from it.

I help him take a closer look at the situation he is in and how he relates to his own thoughts and fears.

And if he is receptive, I help him…. become more deeply human. Find deeper empathy with himself and others and the world. Find deeper understanding with others. See that all beings are in the same boat. Motivate him to change the situation he is in. Motivate him to change the situation others are in. Motivate him for deep personal transformation. Motivate him for being a part of deep social and cultural transformation.

I play a vital role in his life. I can give him what he most wants. I can give him a more and more open heart and mind and a deep connection with himself, other beings, and the world.

I can help him deeply heal. I can help him deeply awaken. I can help him deeply embody whatever clarity, wisdom, and love is here for him.

That sounds amazing. I notice I love you now. Why don’t more people see this?

I don’t know. I suspect it’s part of the culture. People tell themselves and others that I am terrible. They tell themselves and others I need to be avoided or gotten rid of. They hypnotize themselves with these stories.

A few do understand some or all of this. Often people who have suffered a lot and used it to grow, heal, mature, and perhaps used me for creating beautiful art or as an engine for social change.

Thank you for being here. Thank you for being part of humans’ lives. Thank you for being part of P.’s life. I love you. And I am sorry for how you have been treated by so many.

Thank you. That means a lot to me. I love you too. I have always loved you and all beings. I am here because of that love.

I love you.

I love you too. Always have. Always will. Whether you see it or not.

When I initially wrote this dialog, I focused on the human side of suffering. That’s fine. But I did leave out something in the bigger picture. And although I have written about it in other articles, I thought I would include it here too.

For all its value, suffering has an exit door. And suffering functions as an exit door for us taking ourselves to be a separate self or something particular within our content of experience.

Can I speak with Big Mind?

Yes, I am here.

How do you see suffering?

What suffering said is accurate although a bit limited. Yes, suffering can help humans in many ways. It’s often a part of being human and if they have a somewhat open heart and mind, it can help them deepen into their humanity and their compassion for all life.

And yet, there is another crucial way suffering can help humans.

Suffering shows them their struggle. Suffering comes when the mind struggles with what is. When it is caught up in a ”should“ saying what is should be different than it is.

Suffering shows them that they struggle and where they struggle, and motivates them to examine this struggle.

It shows them where their mind is still caught in beliefs and identifications, and where they are blind to a thought being a thought.

Suffering invites them to recognize and get to know this dynamic, and question their thoughts and find what’s already more true for them.

It invites them to awaken out of the trance of holding thoughts as true and for what they are – me – to awaken to itself.

I said this from the perspective of humans being somewhat distinct from me, since that’s how most humans perceive it and may help them understand it a little better. But it’s not completely accurate.

Said more accurately, I temporarily and locally take myself to be a human being and holding thoughts as true. This creates suffering. The suffering invites me – while taking myself to be a suffering separate self – to examine suffering and the causes of suffering. And this helps me wake up out of the temporary trance of taking thoughts as true and to myself as what I am.

Dialog with someone who has lived innumerable lives in many places in the cosmos

Living for as many lives as I have, I have over time arrived at many of the same insights that many spiritual teachers and traditions talk about. For me, it’s through experience and living ordinary lives. I haven’t been terribly interested in spirituality in itself, except for at rare occasions. But I realize that a lot of what I know – in my fibers and bones and through my being – fits much of what spiritual traditions talk about.

– a quote from this dialog

This is one in a series of imagined dialogs with people who have lived for eons. This dialog is with someone who has lived innumerable lives in many places in the cosmos and – through a glitch? – happens to remember it all.


First, I am curious about the several lives. Does it mean you remember the life between lives?

Yes, although it doesn’t matter so much here. If you don’t remember it yourself, what I say will just become ideas. And if you do, I don’t need to say much about it.

Okay. How is it to have lived many lives in many different places of the cosmos?

I am very grateful for having that experience. It’s enormously enriching to live lives through the filters of different beings – and their senses, bodies, perceptions, culture and more – and their world.

What have you learned that many with one life haven’t?

Mostly, to know that we all live from our own conditioning. Everything about us makes sense in the light of our conditioning – from our bodies, environment, culture, and individual experiences.

Because of all the lives I have had, I am less inclined to judge. The tendency to judge has worn off in me over time. I know how it is to live in so many different circumstances, and I know how so much in us flows from our conditioning.

I have a deep empathy with different beings. I know we all just want to live and be free from suffering – and love and be loved. There is something very beautiful in this. It’s also heartbreaking because I know how universal suffering is and how common it is for beings to not feel fully loved and to not fully love themselves.

These sounds like insights from spirituality?

Living for as many lives as I have, I have over time arrived at many of the same insights that many spiritual teachers and traditions talk about. For me, it’s through experience and living ordinary lives. I haven’t been terribly interested in spirituality in itself, except for at rare occasions. But I realize that a lot of what I know – in my fibers and bones and through my being – fits much of what spiritual traditions talk about.

You mentioned empathy with others. What about awakening?

Well, that’s a big word. For me, it’s more simple and down-to-earth.

Through having lived as many lives I have, I notice that all sorts of experiences and states come and go. I have experienced millennia of mostly “ordinary” states with times of profound despair, mind-shattering pain, and amazing bliss. I have noticed that what I am is that which all this happens within and as. Experiences come and go and what I am doesn’t come and go. Of course, I am whatever state is here but it doesn’t last. Only being capacity for all of it runs through it all.

If you want to call that awakening, be my guest. But it’s really very simple. It doesn’t require fancy words, or rituals, or mythology, or even labels.

What do most people not get?

Hm, from my perspective, many things.

They don’t get how precious and amazing life is. Even a troubled life, even a mundane life, is amazing and precious beyond words.

They don’t get that the way they treat others is the way they treat themselves. Love your neighbor for your own sake. It’s good for everyone.

They don’t get the importance of a long and big perspective. Of course, most people get by with a more narrow and shorter perspective. But a long and big perspective enriches life enormously. And for you folks today, it’s essential for your survival. It’s the only way humans can and will survive. And life is showing you just that.

They don’t get that all experiences enrich life. They are not your enemies. Trying to run away from your experiences only creates an added layer of suffering. In reality, it’s the only real suffering.

Of course, most don’t get that what we are is capacity for all and any of our experiences. We are the experiences which come and go. And we are capacity for all of it.

How can we mimic your process and discover this for ourselves?

Well, that’s not my speciality. But it does seem that some things helps people to find this for themselves. It’s definitely possible to people to find this for themselves, and many do – to some extent.

The main thing is curiosity and sincerity. Explore and see what you find. Don’t take your own or others assumptions for granted. Be willing to leave your most basic assumptions about yourself and life. Get close to your experience.

I feel like this is a trick question since a lot of what you write about on this website does exactly that! Is that what you want me to say? I see through you. And of course, yes, the tools you write about here can be very helpful for people, especially if used with curiosity and sincerity.

Yes, I guess that’s why I asked the question. Although I write about these things exactly because these tools can help us find what someone like you have discovered. It helps us discover what someone who has lived for eons tends to naturally discover through lived experience.

Yes, I agree. For me, it comes through lived experience and mostly free form ideology or pointers or shoulds or trying to live up to anything. And for many humans, it’s often more of a mix of genuine lived experience and insights – and some ideologies and shoulds.

What can we do to make it more from lived experience?

You are asking difficult questions. As I said, this is not my speciality.

Get close to your own experience. Be curious about it. Take it seriously. Make use of pointers and use them to discover for yourself. Set aside shoulds and how people say something is. Live your life and pay attention to what’s happening.

Do you have any advice for P. (this interviewer)?

Yes. You already know all this. You even trust it. But there is some hesitation in you. You can trust it even more. You can sink into it. Lean into it. Rest into and as it. It’s what you are. Live it. It can help you to remember me and lean into what I am.

Thank you! I appreciate this interview and especially your advice at the end.

Thank you. I enjoyed this conversation. I don’t think about these things so often so it was fun. And I wish you all the best in your life. As I said, you already know and are all of this. Lean into it a bit more and it will help you a lot. (And if you don’t, that’s completely fine too.)

Dialog with heart ache / survival fear

I have been exploring something over the last few days. It’s in my heart area, and it feels like a combination of issues – primal survival fear, longing, heart ache and so on. It has come up a few times in my life, when I am faced with a loss of something important to me.

I thought I would do a little dialog with it to get to know it better.


Hi. Can you help me? I am suffering.

Yes, I want to help you. How can I help?

Be with me. Help me feel safe. I don’t want to be left alone, that’s what I fear the most. Please be here with me.

Yes, I can be with you. I am with you now. And I want to be with you if or when you come in the future.

Thank you. I don’t know if I can trust you since you have abandoned me before. When I come, you get terrified and try to run away from me or get rid of me. It feels terrible. You have treated me terribly.

I am so sorry. I didn’t know what I was doing. I feel sad about how I have behaved and how I have abandoned you. I want to be different. I know how important it is for both of us.

OK. Just be with me now and we’ll see what happens.

How are you? I want to get to know you more.

Right now, I feel much more relaxed. I know you are sincere now. You are with me. You even love me. I know it. I can feel it. And it helps me relax. I feel softer.

How are you when I run away?

I feel desperate. It’s the most horrible feeling possible. I feel abandoned. Unloved. Alone. Scared. I want and need your attention and I’ll do anything to get it. I make myself bigger and louder and impossible to ignore.

Yes, I know. I also really don’t like it when it happens. I guess we share that. And I feel I am beginning to understand you more. I am actually glad you make yourself bigger and louder. I understand where it comes from. I understand you need me in that moment, and I instead run away.

Yes, all I want is your presence. That you are here with me. That you don’t abandon me. That you give me a sense of safety, and maybe even of being loved and understood.

What do you need the most from me?

Just that. Be here with me. Be present with me. Allow me to be as I am. And, if it’s possible, understand me, love me. I need to feel safe. Understood. Loved. That way, I can relax.

I love you.

I love you too. When you are here for me.

Can I speak with Big Heart?

Yes. I am here.

How do you see this situation?

I see you wanting to be in a good and nurturing relationship with this part of you, although you are not always able to. And I see this part of you desperately needing you to be there for it.

I am always here and always love you and whatever comes up for you. Both you – whatever you take yourself to be, and this part of you, are always loved. It’s just that you don’t always notice or remember. And that’s OK. That’s how human life is.

Can you help me and this part of me?

Yes, although it’s really you who need to do it. I am always here.

One thing you can do is remind yourself that what you feel is a flavor of the divine. It isn’t and never was anything else. It helps you to notice.

Another thing you can do is open for me and invite me in. I already love this part of you and what it needs is love. Allow it to absorb this love.

When that happens, it’s easier for you – and it – to notice that it already is this love. It is me. All of this – you, it, your relationship – is me. When that’s more thoroughly clear to you, there is a deeper healing.

Thank you. I love you.

I love you too. I always did. I always do. You are loved. And you are love.

Dialog with one who has lived eons and has a mystic streak

In my case, I find a more down-to-earth and pragmatic language helpful. There are already a lot of amazing mystic poets out there. And people are hungry for not only that but also the more pragmatic.

– quote from this dialog

This is part of a series of imagined dialogs with people who have lived eons. This time, it’s a dialog with someone with a strong mystic streak.

After writing this, I felt that the many eons perspective didn’t show up very much. I suspect it’s because mystics tend to perceive and live as if they have lived for eons anyway.


How do you see spirituality?

That’s a very broad question. I’ll have to split it up.

What I consider authentic spirituality is about life and reality. It’s about exploring and finding who and what we are, and live more consciously from and as it. It’s by necessity nondual since reality is one. It’s about finding ourselves as that which all already is.

In a more concrete sense, it’s about finding ourselves as that which all our experience happens within and as.

People have a lot of different ideas about spirituality. Some are closer to reality, in a conventional sense, and some are more imaginative. They can serve as pointer for our own exploration, and they can also serve as mirages we get fixated on.

It goes almost without saying that conventional religions and spiritual traditions often deal with a mix of mirages interspersed with some glimmers of real realization. Those who get it a bit more, who get it from own experience, are found both outside and inside of traditions.

If they are inside of traditions, they often tone it down so it fits the tradition more. A real awakening goes outside of convention and tradition, but it can be expressed so it fits it more. Or it can be expressed more freely and then it only partially overlaps with tradition.

In the bigger picture, it’s all lila, the play of the divine.

We can say is all the divine exploring itself, and sometimes locally and temporarily takes itself as a separate being. This is what we see in most Earth beings, including most humans. It’s part of the game.

You sound a lot like P.? (This interviewer)

Well, yes. You are dialoging with a part of him. And this is pretty basic and universal stuff. Of course, it takes on the flavor of the person who speaks the words. It’s a little limited, but that too is part of the game.

Also, he is quiet and a bit somber right now so he doesn’t feel like going to the effort of going outside familiar ways of taking about this.

What’s something many people don’t get about spirituality?

That’s also a broad question. Some don’t get that is OK to not be awake. It’s perfectly fine. It’s natural. It’s the divine expressing, exploring, and experiencing itself that way, locally and temporarily.

Others don’t get that they can have a taste or glimpse of what this is about in relatively easy ways, for instance through the big mind process and headless experiments.

Some don’t get that what this is about is something very ordinary. It’s this ordinary experience, just with the “context” waking up to itself. What our ordinary experience happens within and as notices itself. All of the components are completely ordinary and familiar to us, is just the noticing that shifts, along with what we take ourselves to – more fundamentally — be.

Can you say something about healing vs awakening?

For most people who seek awakening, there is an element of wanting to escape pain and suffering. And that’s easier addressed by seeking healing. A wise approach is to use tools that invite in healing and awakening. Like inquiry and heart-centered practices.

And embodiment vs awakening?

Give at least as much attention to embodiment as awakening. Most people can embody a lot more of the kindness and wisdom in them than they do.

Continued a while later….

What about nature spirituality or nature mysticism?

Yes, I love nature spirituality and mysticism. Spirit is as much nature – and everything physical – as anything else. The divine takes the form of you and I and everyone and nature and the rocks and stars. Nothing is left out.

How would you live if all is the divine?

It changes everything. And the beauty of it is that although nature mysticism can be seen as a step towards a more clear awakening, it can also very easily exist within this more clear awakening and enrich our lives and the lives of others.

You use a very down-to-earth language? I thought mystics used a more effervescent and poetic language?

Yes, that’s the image! But it doesn’t have to be that way. It depends on the personality of the person it comes through, the phase we are in, and also what the function of the words are and the audience.

In my case, I find a more down-to-earth and pragmatic language helpful. There are already a lot of amazing mystic poets out there. And people are hungry for not only that but also the more pragmatic.

What do you think about other mystics?

Well, it’s a very varied group. I love how some of them express it. Especially the ones who are more clear, heartfelt, embodied, and pragmatic. (I know that’s a tall order.)

I also appreciate the rest even if there are more obvious – to me! – filters. They too are in the awakening and embodiment process. They filter based on their own conditioning as we all do. They see themselves and not so much the world as it is – as we all do. They connect with some people and not others – as we all do.

How has all of this changed for you over the eons?

It took some eons to get here. It’s an ongoing clarification and deepening. Mainly, I have a more sober approach now. In the beginning, everything was very exciting. And now, it’s still alive and fresh but in a more sober way. It’s more and more a part of me. It’s more and more what I live and live from. More and more, I see it’s about being a sane human being. It’s simple and at the same time infinitely complex.

Thanks you

Thank you!

Note: I had initially decided to not post this since there isn’t much new here and the “many eons” dimension didn’t show up very much. I suspect the problem is partly with the interviewer! And maybe more importantly, mystics live as if they have lived for eons anyway. I re-found this article some months later and decided to publish it now even if it’s not as interesting or surprising as I had hoped.

Dialog with the beast

A dialog with my inner beast.

I would like to get to know you better. Is that OK? Can I ask you a few questions?

B: sure

What food would you like to eat?

B: Not so different from what P already eats. But more strict more of the time. More strict in following what’s good for the body and mind. More hardcore. And enjoying it. Finding the fun in it. (As P did in his 20s and 30s.)

What music do you enjoy?

B: Again, not so different. But more free in the choice, and more extremes — weird music from around the world, more intense music. Again, as P did in his teens, 20s, 30s.

How do you see P?

B: He is scared, timid. He got scared from what happened in the last ten years. He is afraid of everything right now, including me and living from me more again as he used to. He is afraid to get burnt.

Do you have advice for him?

B: Yes. Quit being so timid. Enjoy life again. Dive into it again. You may get burnt again, and so what? You’ll survive. It’s part of life. Choosing timidity is no life.

How can he do that?

B: Start in daily life. Do things that you used to enjoy a lot but set aside because you are scared and afraid to trigger the buried pain in yourself. Watch challenging movies. Read about what you are passionate about. Listen to deeply moving and spiritual music. Connect with the people you really want to connect with, and not just the “easy” ones. Be more open about your passions instead of pretending to be “normal” and inoffensive.

I get the sense that you, as the beast, cover the whole range of human experiences?

B: Yes, sure. I am part of him and he does, as all humans do. I just want him to be honest, direct, authentic, follow his passions. Whether it’s listening to Rammstein or Arvo Pärt. Or eating organic local vegetarian food or the occasional juicy beef. Or reading graphic novels about ghosts or Adyshanti, Jes Bertelsen, or Christian mysticism. Or enjoying sensuality and passionate sex or prayer and meditation. It’s all part of his life. He knows he deeply enjoys all of it.

Do you have advice for him when it comes to his health?

B: Keep doing what you are doing when it comes to taking care of your health (diet, sleep, fresh air), doing healing work (Vortex Healing, parts work, prayer, inquiry), and planning to spend more time in better climates (warmer, drier, fresh organic food). Also, bring more of me into your life again. Find the joy again of living more from me. Allow yourself to risk getting hurt again. (I promise you you will, and that’s completely ok, it’s part of the game). Follow your actual interests and what makes you be who you want to be. Don’t sell yourself short. (By spending time with the “easy” people instead of the interesting ones, by watching easy things on internet instead of the juicy things that deeply feed you, by avoiding reading what’s deeply interesting to you, by not doing art and making music.)

He is scared of doing art and making music, yes?

B: Yes, he feels it puts him in touch with the deep passion in him and the pain he experienced when he left his inner guidance on the big life decision many years ago. He is afraid of the pain that’s there from leaving his guidance in the past. So now he lives a timid life. One where he doesn’t follow his deep passion and the deep passion he experiences when he does art and composes music.

What advice do you have for him on that topic?

B: Dive into the pain. That’s the only way to do it. You created the pain so you get to experience it. It’s actually not that bad when you dive into it. I’ll be there with you. It’s the only way for you to come alive again. It’s your path to life and living again, and in a much better way than before. You have grown a lot.

He left you?

B: Yes, he left me partially and enough to extinguish his inner fire. He left me when the pain of leaving his inner guidance was too much for him.

It’s that part of his illness? (CFS)

B: I don’t know but I think so. I give him strength, passion, and what he needs to be authentic and follow his guidance. I give him the strength to follow his inner guidance. All of that will help him get back on his feet again, and more than that live a full, fiery and deeply meaningful life. One that has an impact on others too and helps them live a fuller, meaningful and juicy life, and the life that happens when you follow your inner guidance.

Should he post this?

B: He has to decide. Yes, because he wants to be more authentic in his writing and what he posts. No, if it makes him feel he did too much and feels too scared and vulnerable. (It won’t but it’s good for him to embrace me more while also taking care of himself and follow his guidance.)

Anything else you would like him to know?

B: I am here for him. I won’t go away. He just needs to access me and live more from me. I have no interest in being the only part of him he lives from, but I am essential for him to live a more real, fierce, and alive life. I am essential for him to live as he wants to live. To live aligned with his knowing, truth, and authenticity.

You seem to be aligned with truth?

B: I don’t know. I want him to be aligned with his truth, and I am essential for him to live from it. He can’t be timid and still live from truth. He has to be able to access fierceness when that’s needed.

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Dialog with the body

We often have an unintentional dialog with our body, so why not make it more intentional?

I can ask it questions. I can ask it how I have related to it. I can ask how it would like me to relate to it. I can ask what it would like me to know. I can apologize for how I have treated it. I can share what I wish from it. I share that what’s happening is not a life-and-death matter and it’s allowed to relax.

And much more, all in the context of kindness.

This can be very healing, and it can change my relationship with my body.

In addition, it can be helpful to explore how my mind creates my experience of my body. I can do this through inquiry, for instance the Living Inquiries.

For instance:

Body, how does P. relate to you? He likes me most of the time. He appreciated me. He also struggles with me when I don’t do what he wants from me. He struggles when (he thinks) I create fatigue and brain fog.

How would you like him to relate to you? Continue to feed me good food. Go for walks. Get fresh air. Do what you enjoy. Find love for me, as I am. I am doing my best.

What advice do you have for him? Find some patience with me. Continue to explore how his mind creates his experience of me. Continue to find genuine love for me. Enjoy.

Body, can you do something for me? Yes, what? Can you shift into full health? Into an intention of full health? I will do my part, as much as I can. Yes. Remember, it’s a partnership. I am following your cues.

On the last topic, I have found that when I have asked for healing and health, there is a shift in orientation and into a more clear intention. I may also be more aware of what in me fears healing and full health, and can explore that. And I may find something or someone who can support my health.

It may not seem like much, having dialogues like this. And yet, something shifts. I feel more aligned with my body, and on the same side. I see it’s always there for me. I see how it’s taking cues from me, from my intentional and unintentional orientation.

And with so much I write about here, these dialogues are very natural and almost effortless. They happen anyway, so why not make them more intentional?

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